Passing Sticks and Pivoting the Intended Receiver

[Tom H]

Per official Tudor rules, when using Passing Sticks, when can the intended receiver be pivoted?  According to the Tudor official passing sticks guide, "Once measurement has been completed, and the length of the pass has been determined (whether it is going to be a 1,2, or 3 size stick), the intended receiver, and any unblocked players may be pivoted.  Once this is done, the appropriate color stick is then placed on the field....".  I interpret this to mean that the receiver is pivoted before the color stick is placed on the field.  Am I correct?  

[Simes549]

How I approach it is, once I determine the receiver, I then measure to determine which passing stick to use. Then pivot the receiver, kind of using the stick as a guide, to help the reveiver hopefully get more open. But a speedy DB or Safety, or even LB, pivoted as well can ruin that plan.

In the end, it is your game and thus the rules are up to you and how you want the game to go. Have Fun!

[NO Dave]

By the enclosed rules, yes. 

Another way to do it is to allow the receiver to either pivot to make the catch, or use the pivot to run after the catch. 

[zak99b5]

We allow the receiver to pivot to catch the ball.  One defender may also pivot to try to intercept.  After the pass is completed, the receiver may pivot to run, and all unengaged defenders can pivot to make the tackle.

[Terry43]

Are the new TAP passing rules going to affect anyone's passing game?

New TAP passing rules: (I added the green highlights based on the previous discussion)

• The offensive coach may attempt a pass (if the ball carrier is the QB * and is behind the line of scrimmage). To attempt a pass, the offensive coach will declare “Pass” during a stoppage.

  The offensive coach will use the pass simulation measuring stick to determine the passing stick to be used –(short), (medium), (long) passing stick. The measurement is from the center of helmet from QB to center of helmet of receiver.

  Once the length stick is determined, the offensive coach can pivot the receiver in any direction using the passing stick. The magnetic ball is placed at the end of the stick. The offensive coach then removes the stick from the field of play. This must be completed in 20 seconds from the time of declaring “Pass” to the removal of the passing stick.

The defensive coach may pivot any unengaged player toward the ball. The defense has 10 seconds to make all pivots.

The switch is controlled by the offensive coach and the board stops as soon as an offensive or defensive player contacts the ball.

If the receiver passes the magnetic ball by more than one base length, the offensive coach may stop the board and the play is dead and no interception can be made.

When a player contacts the magnetic ball, that player and any other unengaged player may be pivoted. The opposing team then gets to pivot any unengaged players. Pivoting time rules apply – 10 seconds for offense and 10 seconds for defense.

NOTE: A pass may be attempted to a player behind the QB, but the pass must be attempted in front of the QB using the passing stick.

If an offensive and defensive player contact the passing ball at the same time, the ball is awarded to the offensive player.

- Here’s another unique rule for “TAP”: The QB cannot throw the ball away!**  He must attempt a pass to an eligible receiver, keep the ball or pitch the ball at each stoppage.

* No half-back passes or Wide Receiver passes?

* * What happened to outside the tackle-box and beyond the line of Scrimmage?

Enjoy the Journey    T43   ⚡🏈♾️

[Daryl Collins]

Not if you use dice.

Journey On!

[Coach Shawn]

I pivot then place the sticks. To me this represents the receiver making his “cut” on his route.

I do not allow pivots after the catch.

This I believe matches the TAP rules. 
I do however, allow the QB to throwaway the ball.   In fact I use that as a stat for the defense (ie. How many forced throwaways the defense can accrue).

[BlueHen]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:44 PM, Daryl Collins said:

Not if you use dice.

Journey On!

This seems like a good idea. You may not like the reference here, but your boy EFH (Electric Football Hero) gave me the idea in a video. He's got all the measurements figured out with regard to what number to roll for a completion (two 6 sided dice) not only for how many yards down field, but also how far across the field the QB is throwing the ball, because as you know, a 10 yard pass could be longer than a 20 yard pass if the 10 yarder is from sideline to sideline...

My idea is to allow the coach who's throwing the ball to decide if he wants to use passing sticks, dice, or the old fashioned TTQB in some cases. This way, the offense can more effectively use flat passes which can otherwise become obsolete with passing sticks. 

[nefgm.org]

There are leagues that allow using either the TTQB or another Passing / Kicker figure or Passing Sticks. However, that choice must be made prior to the beginning of the game and must be used throughout the first half but can be changed to the other method for the second half. 

In the Music City EFL at one time we allowed the choice of a TTQB or passing sticks on every pass but not until after the board was stopped to attempt the pass. It made it harder to defense against the pass since you didn't know which method was going to be used and each typically requires a different defensive scheme to defend against. There was really only one coach who would use this tactic, but he won a lot of games by playing that way. He was semi handicapped since he had suffered a stroke previously and was still recovering, but he had enough strength in his passing hand to still use a TTQB.  We finally went to the rule that you had to make a choice before the game and stick to it for at least one half.    

Have I ever mentioned that the use of passing sticks basically came about as an alternative method for handicapped coaches, who were physically unable to throw a pass with a TTQB or another passer / kicker figure. it gained popular use first as an alternative method for kids and beginners just learning to play and later as an alternative method to passing in solitaire play. At least that is the history of it as I perceive of it and observed in traveling around to different areas of the country for league and tournament events. It is possible it could have been around long before that, but not that I am aware of. 

[BlueHen]

9 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

There are leagues that allow using either the TTQB or another Passing / Kicker figure or Passing Sticks. However, that choice must be made prior to the beginning of the game and must be used throughout the first half but can be changed to the other method for the second half. 

In the Music City EFL at one time we allowed the choice of a TTQB or passing sticks on every pass but not until after the board was stopped to attempt the pass. It made it harder to defense against the pass since you didn't know which method was going to be used and each typically requires a different defensive scheme to defend against. There was really only one coach who would use this tactic, but he won a lot of games by playing that way. He was semi handicapped since he had suffered a stroke previously and was still recovering, but he had enough strength in his passing hand to still use a TTQB.  We finally went to the rule that you had to make a choice before the game and stick to it for at least one half.    

Have I ever mentioned that the use of passing sticks basically came about as an alternative method for handicapped coaches, who were physically unable to throw a pass with a TTQB or another passer / kicker figure. it gained popular use first as an alternative method for kids and beginners just learning to play and later as an alternative method to passing in solitaire play. At least that is the history of it as I perceive of it and observed in traveling around to different areas of the country for league and tournament events. It is possible it could have been around long before that, but not that I am aware of. 

Interesting point Coach. So, the rule is that you must choose which method to pass by because that determines the style of coverage by the defense...

For some reason, that's not making sense to me, LOL. Is it because with sticks you're playing further off in anticipation of the stick process verses trying to get inside position for the TTQB? 

[nefgm.org]

8 hours ago, BlueHen said:

For some reason, that's not making sense to me, LOL. Is it because with sticks you're playing further off in anticipation of the stick process verses trying to get inside position for the TTQB? 

Yes. With sticks since the receiver and DB can make a play on the ball, it is more strategic to play off the receiver in zone coverage.  When using the TTQB most rules don't allow passing to an engaged receiver (Receiver and Defensive player touching) so more strategic to play tight coverage. 

[Terry43]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:37 AM, BlueHen said:

all the measurements figured out with regard to what number to roll for a completion

My scenario is more simple.

In my imagination the QB releases the pass and the QB has an arm like John Elway, or Cam Newton, so no distance or place on the field is out of reach. (I believe AWS is a wonderful service but I don't need AWS for electric football.)

As the ball is spiraling down (a perfect spiral every time) the receiver and the defender both have an opportunity to catch the ball. Both receiver and defender go up for the ball... Both have their hands on the ball...

The receiver throws the D12 and the defender throws the D10. The receiver has the advantage because the receiver practices with the QB and also the receiver knows the play.

If the defender throws the higher number then the pass is incomplete.

If the receiver throws the higher number then the pass is complete.

If they tie then the pass is intercepted.

For me the whole game of electric football is Theater of the Mind 🎭. Kind of like Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegon. ❣️

Enjoy the Journey    T43    ⚡🏈♾️

[BlueHen]

10 minutes ago, Terry43 said:

My scenario is more simple.

In my imagination the QB releases the pass and the QB has an arm like John Elway, or Cam Newton, so no distance or place on the field is out of reach. (I believe AWS is a wonderful service but I don't need AWS for electric football.)

As the ball is spiraling down (a perfect spiral every time) the receiver and the defender both have an opportunity to catch the ball. Both receiver and defender go up for the ball... Both have their hands on the ball...

The receiver throws the D12 and the defender throws the D10. The receiver has the advantage because the receiver practices with the QB and also the receiver knows the play.

If the defender throws the higher number then the pass is incomplete.

If the receiver throws the higher number then the pass is complete.

If they tie then the pass is intercepted.

For me the whole game of electric football is Theater of the Mind 🎭. Kind of like Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegon. ❣️

Enjoy the Journey    T43    ⚡🏈♾️

Coach Terry, I absolutely Love it! 

That is simple, but effective. 💪👊🤝

 

But, I just gotta' ask one question: Where did you come up with the phrase "Theater for the mind?" 

[Terry43]

1 minute ago, BlueHen said:

Where did you come up with the phrase "Theater for the mind?" 

It's an old concept made new by RPG.

Theater of the Mind became most apparent in radio shows. The radio performers would use a variety of things (like coconuts for example) to sound like real things, (horses clomping in this example).

In Role Play Games (RPG) the terrain need only suggest a medieval tavern, or a ship at sea, or a dragon, or a convoy of Halo soldiers.

Electric football has always been a RPG. The number 32 on a plastic man painted red, white, and blue is OJ Simpson. The number 32 on a black and silver player is Marcus Allen. A steel field painted green is real turf, not artificial turf. 😉

Thanks for asking.  Enjoy the Journey    T43    ⚡🏈🎭

[BlueHen]

36 minutes ago, Terry43 said:

 

For me the whole game of electric football is Theater of the Mind 🎭. Kind of like Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegon. ❣️

 

Never mind, I think I understand more clearly the inspiration for: "Theater of the mind", LOL

 

Here's what I discovered after a brief search from wikipedia: 

• The typical monologue began: "Well, it's been a quiet week in Lake Wobegon, Minnesota, my hometown, out there on the edge of the prairie."
• Lake Wobegon was called "the little town that time forgot and the decades cannot improve."
• The monologue would close: "That's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."

🤠

 

Edited January 3 by BlueHen