Ultimate Board

[Greg F]

This past year, I played my first solitaire league since I was a kid.   I bought the ultimate board, which was very beautiful.  Here are some things I've noticed:

1) Obviously, there was a sag in the middle.  On the sidelines, I wasn't so concerned with it because it kept runners in bounds longer (which, of course, is what you'd want).  However, it was much harder to run the ball as the plays got closer to the goal line.

2) With the motor on the instructed site at the 50 yard line, the board obviously vibrated more on that side of the field.  However, it also vibrated more on one side of the field (from the 25 yard line to the endzone) than on the other side.  This resulted in more players falling in these parts of the field.

3) Individual players would perform differently depending on which end zone they were headed towards (especially in speed, but also in power)

 

Does anyone have thoughts on these things?

 

Thanks!

 

Greg

[nefgm.org]

Not really much to say since I don't have an Ultimate Game Board nor have I played on one. The sag in the middle can be advantageous in keeping the players from running out of bounds when headed down the sideline. Obviously, the sag is caused by the size of the playing field without enough support to keep it from sagging.  I have always thought placing the motor in the center of the field would be better, but no matter where you place the motor, you are going to have areas where the vibration is stronger that usually results in more players falling over in that area. Weighting the figures is the best way to keep them from falling over. Performance of the figures is dependent on many factors most of which come from the condition of the game boards. The bigger question is are you enjoying playing despite these issues or are these issues enough to keep you from enjoying the game. 

[Greg F]

I’m still enjoying it.  I’m just trying to find ways to improve both gameplay and my solitaire rules as I go along from year to year.  😊

[zak99b5]

My Ultimate field has a slight sag, and I even fabbed up a support to "fix" it.  Don't use it at all anymore, as the sag is actually very slight and didn't affect play much at all.

As for the motor, I use a GBN electromagnetic motor.  Works FANTASTIC, and it mounts to the underside with magnets, so you can experiment to your heart's content with placement.

[Greg F]

Where do I get a GBN motor?

[nefgm.org]

5 minutes ago, Greg F said:

Where do I get a GBN motor?

Gridiron Buzz Network or get one from  ITZ Bases – Championship Products for Electric Football, America's most popular tabletop sports board game!

[Coach Shawn]

I use two motor hookup with Tudor’s motors.  It works fine for me.

By using two motors I do not have to have one motor turned up extra high.

This helps avoid that high vibration spot near the motor and the dead spots away from the motor.

I placed one motor in each endzone at opposite corners.

[zak99b5]

2 hours ago, Coach Shawn said:

I use two motor hookup with Tudor’s motors.  It works fine for me.

By using two motors I do not have to have one motor turned up extra high.

This helps avoid that high vibration spot near the motor and the dead spots away from the motor.

I placed one motor in each endzone at opposite corners.

I did the same before I got the GBN. It was better than with just one motor, but still glad I upgraded to the big ol' GBN. 

Now I have a couple motors I can use on older game boards if/when the originals die. 

[Greg F]

What are the pros and cons of Tudor vs ITZ motors?

[Terry43]

Hi. An ITZ video states this, "The ITZ Power Pack has a BIG and POWERFUL motor that has increased frequency and reduced amplitude, which means you will get smooth running for your home team." 

Frequency is the number of vibrations per time period (1 second usually) and amplitude is the peak and valley of the vibration.

So, the ITZ Power Pack gives a coach more vibrations with less deviation from G where 1G is equal to the acceleration from gravity.

The ITZ video goes on to say, "In addition, the action is VERY tight, which means when you have your motor set in the right position on your field and with the motor at the right height from the field it’ll stay set! You can move it around underneath the board until you find your sweet spot, then leave it alone.

This is probably a bit of hyperbole because my two Tudor Motion Generators are very tight. Magnets, instead of double sticky tape just make it easier to move the motion generators around. Which is a plus.

The ITZ video goes on to say, "This game is only fun if the bases run fast. Without a doubt ITZ bases run the best, but part of that equation is the motor providing enough power to give your tweaked bases the performance you demand, and the ITZ Compact Power Pack solves that problem!

If ITZ bases run the best, why do they need more power? What is the problem the Power Pack solves?

The problem is friction. From my experience testing ITZ bases, ITZ bases have a high coefficient of friction compared to some Tudor bases. This is why ITZ bases won't slide backwards. Also, ITZ bases frequently leap forward and then come to a near stop. Decreasing the amplitude should decrease that jerky movement. To overcome the increased friction the ITZ bases need more power.

Finally, the formula for momentum is: Speed X Mass = Momentum. I think this may be the formula the ITZ video is mentioning. Because the MFCA, TOEPRO, and other rule makers prevent increasing weight above 4 grams, then increasing speed is the only option rule makers have given ITZ and Tudor. ☹️

I have the Ultimate and I use two motion generators. They are attached with double sticky tape at the 25 yard lines, on opposite sides of the 50 and just outside the numbers. In my solitaire league the minimum weight is 4 grams. Please see my videos on Red Peg bases.

Decreasing amplitude and increasing weight should reduce the amount of tweaking necessary for Tudor bases. Once again, please see my Red Peg video.

Thanks for reading. 😃 T43

 

[nefgm.org]

Awesome explanation!! Way too technical for me, though. LOL 

[Terry43]

On 4/6/2023 at 4:36 PM, Terry43 said:

In my solitaire league the minimum weight is 4 grams.

My solitaire league's minimum weight is now 5 grams.

T43   ⚡🏈♾️

[Daryl Collins]

Thanks Coach T43!

Class dismissed!

Journey on!

[Long island EFL]

On 3/2/2023 at 12:06 PM, nefgm.org said:

Not really much to say since I don't have an Ultimate Game Board nor have I played on one. The sag in the middle can be advantageous in keeping the players from running out of bounds when headed down the sideline. Obviously, the sag is caused by the size of the playing field without enough support to keep it from sagging.  I have always thought placing the motor in the center of the field would be better, but no matter where you place the motor, you are going to have areas where the vibration is stronger that usually results in more players falling over in that area. Weighting the figures is the best way to keep them from falling over. Performance of the figures is dependent on many factors most of which come from the condition of the game boards. The bigger question is are you enjoying playing despite these issues or are these issues enough to keep you from enjoying the game. 

We used it in a few practice games in the LIEFL but ended up giving it away because we didn't like the performance level of the game. We prefer the old school great quality games made by Tudor and some from Miggle Toys.

[Terry43]

1 hour ago, Long island EFL said:

We prefer the old school great quality games made by Tudor

Long live the Tudor 620. 😃👍

On 3/2/2023 at 10:06 AM, nefgm.org said:

The bigger question is are you enjoying playing despite these issues or are these issues enough to keep you from enjoying the game. 

My 620 hangs on the wall. I play on an Ultimate Field with two motion generators and probably always will (until a better field comes along 🥰). I have three Ultimate Fields just in case I outlive my current field. 🪦

Enjoy the Journey    T43    ⚡🏈♾️

[nefgm.org]

3 minutes ago, Terry43 said:

Long live the Tudor 620.

I don't think anything will ever beat the original Model 620 for quality. I have several of them in the collection of the museum that i plan on using to let people play on to experience how the game used to be played. I will probably have teams on the original single clip bases, but also will have some on the original TTC bases. Also, maybe even some more modern ITZ bases. 

[Long island EFL]

28 minutes ago, nefgm.org said:

I don't think anything will ever beat the original Model 620 for quality. I have several of them in the collection of the museum that i plan on using to let people play on to experience how the game used to be played. I will probably have teams on the original single clip bases, but also will have some on the original TTC bases. Also, maybe even some more modern ITZ bases. 

THOSE 620'S work great! There are several for sale on eBay right now. 

[nefgm.org]

18 minutes ago, Long island EFL said:

THOSE 620'S work great! There are several for sale on eBay right now. 

Yeah, there is one for sale on Facebook Marketplace for$ 15.00. About an hour 1/2 drive from where I live, in KY. I will probably buy it and go get it very soon, possibly next week, if it is still available. Not that I need it!! But a really good price. 

Edited January 13 by nefgm.org

[Long island EFL]

On 1/13/2024 at 1:00 PM, nefgm.org said:

Yeah, there is one for sale on Facebook Marketplace for$ 15.00. About an hour 1/2 drive from where I live, in KY. I will probably buy it and go get it very soon, possibly next week, if it is still available. Not that I need it!! But a really good price. 

THAT IS A STEAL!

[Long island EFL]

On 4/6/2023 at 6:36 PM, Terry43 said:

Hi. An ITZ video states this, "The ITZ Power Pack has a BIG and POWERFUL motor that has increased frequency and reduced amplitude, which means you will get smooth running for your home team." 

Frequency is the number of vibrations per time period (1 second usually) and amplitude is the peak and valley of the vibration.

So, the ITZ Power Pack gives a coach more vibrations with less deviation from G where 1G is equal to the acceleration from gravity.

The ITZ video goes on to say, "In addition, the action is VERY tight, which means when you have your motor set in the right position on your field and with the motor at the right height from the field it’ll stay set! You can move it around underneath the board until you find your sweet spot, then leave it alone.

This is probably a bit of hyperbole because my two Tudor Motion Generators are very tight. Magnets, instead of double sticky tape just make it easier to move the motion generators around. Which is a plus.

The ITZ video goes on to say, "This game is only fun if the bases run fast. Without a doubt ITZ bases run the best, but part of that equation is the motor providing enough power to give your tweaked bases the performance you demand, and the ITZ Compact Power Pack solves that problem!

If ITZ bases run the best, why do they need more power? What is the problem the Power Pack solves?

The problem is friction. From my experience testing ITZ bases, ITZ bases have a high coefficient of friction compared to some Tudor bases. This is why ITZ bases won't slide backwards. Also, ITZ bases frequently leap forward and then come to a near stop. Decreasing the amplitude should decrease that jerky movement. To overcome the increased friction the ITZ bases need more power.

Finally, the formula for momentum is: Speed X Mass = Momentum. I think this may be the formula the ITZ video is mentioning. Because the MFCA, TOEPRO, and other rule makers prevent increasing weight above 4 grams, then increasing speed is the only option rule makers have given ITZ and Tudor. ☹️

I have the Ultimate and I use two motion generators. They are attached with double sticky tape at the 25 yard lines, on opposite sides of the 50 and just outside the numbers. In my solitaire league the minimum weight is 4 grams. Please see my videos on Red Peg bases.

Decreasing amplitude and increasing weight should reduce the amount of tweaking necessary for Tudor bases. Once again, please see my Red Peg video.

Thanks for reading. 😃 T43

 

GREAT BREAKDOWN T

[Long island EFL]

Just now, Long island EFL said:

GREAT BREAKDOWN T

Physics in motion!

[BlueHen]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:21 AM, Daryl Collins said:

Thanks Coach T43!

Class dismissed!

 

Coach T43?

Or Professor T43? 🤔👨‍🏫

[Daryl Collins]

On the faculty…with tenure.

Believe it.

Journey On!

[Greg F]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:05 AM, Terry43 said:

Long live the Tudor 620. 😃👍

My 620 hangs on the wall. I play on an Ultimate Field with two motion generators and probably always will (until a better field comes along 🥰). I have three Ultimate Fields just in case I outlive my current field. 🪦

Enjoy the Journey    T43    ⚡🏈♾️

Loved my 620.  Was talking to NEFGM on the phone this week, telling him that I have the board I got when I was little had a combination of field and siderail color that I haven’t seen on here or on eBay,

[Long island EFL]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:18 AM, Greg F said:

This past year, I played my first solitaire league since I was a kid.   I bought the ultimate board, which was very beautiful.  Here are some things I've noticed:

1) Obviously, there was a sag in the middle.  On the sidelines, I wasn't so concerned with it because it kept runners in bounds longer (which, of course, is what you'd want).  However, it was much harder to run the ball as the plays got closer to the goal line.

2) With the motor on the instructed site at the 50 yard line, the board obviously vibrated more on that side of the field.  However, it also vibrated more on one side of the field (from the 25 yard line to the endzone) than on the other side.  This resulted in more players falling in these parts of the field.

3) Individual players would perform differently depending on which end zone they were headed towards (especially in speed, but also in power)

 

Does anyone have thoughts on these things?

 

Thanks!

 

Greg

We don't use those new boards and we use a level to be sure the game is close to perfect. We gave the board we bought away because we just didn't like the performance.