Trick plays in electric football?

[nefgm.org]

https://fb.watch/l77oaq-2wo/

So, somebody tell me why this cannot be done in electric football?

[Terry43]

2 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

So, somebody tell me why this cannot be done in electric football?

I'm not going to tell you that! 😃 Just the opposite!

My first thought is that the snap from center to QB is pretend, that is, Theater of the Mind, so it is completely possible to hike the ball from the hashmarks to the numbers.

Theater of the Mind in radio is :

"The theatre of the mind" comes from radio jargon, where the term indicates the collected ability, styles, tools, and techniques by which radio performers conjure vivid imagery in their audiences' minds through sound alone." Quoted from Quora.

Theater of the Mind in Dungeons and Dragons is:

"Theatre of the mind is a style of play in which the game world is wholly imagined by the players instead of being represented by game aids. That is, theatre of the mind games do not use miniatures, but also generally do not use props, maps, diagrams, or any other physical game aids." Quoted from RPG Museum.

Theater of the Mind in electric football is our knowledge of Football coming into direct conflict with the known limitations of plastic figures and bases and then creating actions to compensate. I just made up that definition. I believe Pivoting is an excellent example of Theater of the Mind. From Tudor: "Following the completion, the offensive coach may pivot the receiver. The defense is then allowed to pivot any unblocked players toward the receiver."

Examples of Theater of the Mind are the snap from center, receivers catching a football, players stiff arming a tackler, and of course my favorite, tackling.

The snap from center to a wide receiver is a superb idea and then further down field is the good ol' Hook and Lateral Play which seems to be reserved in the NFL for desperation situations. 

I'm playing a game tomorrow night so I'll work the play in to my playbook. Watch for the video. 

Enjoy the Journey. T43 ⚡🏈♾️

[Greg F]

4 hours ago, Terry43 said:

I'm not going to tell you that! 😃 Just the opposite!

My first thought is that the snap from center to QB is pretend, that is, Theater of the Mind, so it is completely possible to hike the ball from the hashmarks to the numbers.

Theater of the Mind in radio is :

"The theatre of the mind" comes from radio jargon, where the term indicates the collected ability, styles, tools, and techniques by which radio performers conjure vivid imagery in their audiences' minds through sound alone." Quoted from Quora.

Theater of the Mind in Dungeons and Dragons is:

"Theatre of the mind is a style of play in which the game world is wholly imagined by the players instead of being represented by game aids. That is, theatre of the mind games do not use miniatures, but also generally do not use props, maps, diagrams, or any other physical game aids." Quoted from RPG Museum.

Theater of the Mind in electric football is our knowledge of Football coming into direct conflict with the known limitations of plastic figures and bases and then creating actions to compensate. I just made up that definition. I believe Pivoting is an excellent example of Theater of the Mind. From Tudor: "Following the completion, the offensive coach may pivot the receiver. The defense is then allowed to pivot any unblocked players toward the receiver."

Examples of Theater of the Mind are the snap from center, receivers catching a football, players stiff arming a tackler, and of course my favorite, tackling.

The snap from center to a wide receiver is a superb idea and then further down field is the good ol' Hook and Lateral Play which seems to be reserved in the NFL for desperation situations. 

I'm playing a game tomorrow night so I'll work the play in to my playbook. Watch for the video. 

Enjoy the Journey. T43 ⚡🏈♾️

I’ll need to see the video 😁

[Terry43]

Hi. I consulted Commissioner Korin “Kit” Kinchen's (TOEPRO) rulebook, Solitaire and Reference Booklet and the only legal snap is in the Snap Zone. 

So, by rule the snap in the video is outside the Snap Zone and is therefore a penalty.

According to the rules the penalty is: Illegal Formation / Procedure — 5 yards from previous spot.

Enjoy the Journey. T43 ⚡🏈♾️

 

[Coach Shawn]

Couldn’t you get a similar result by snapping the ball to the QB by starting the field for a mere instant then have the QB pitch the ball to the desired player?

Now the lateral downfield is something I have never seen allowed in EF rules.  Not sure why.

[Coach Shawn]

1 hour ago, Coach Shawn said:

Couldn’t you get a similar result by snapping the ball to the QB by starting the field for a mere instant then have the QB pitch the ball to the desired player?

Now the lateral downfield is something I have never seen allowed in EF rules.  Not sure why.

After some thought I decided to answer myself.  In the rules I use a direct hike would have a different effect than a pitch.

in my rules the defense is allowed to pivot when a pitch is made just as they do for a pass.

I have never used directed snaps in my rules but it seems reasonable to say The defense cannot pivot to a direct snap, like they cannot pivot for a handoff.   Or should the “hangtime” of the long snap allow for a pivot by the alert defense?

[nefgm.org]

The NFL rules regarding the snap, putting the ball in play and a backward pass. 

• The offensive team must put the ball in play with a snap.
• The snap may be made by any offensive player who is on the line of scrimmage.
• It is not necessary that the snap be between the snapper’s legs.
• A snap is a backward pass. The snap must be received by a player who is not on the line at the snap,
• A runner may throw a backward pass at any time.

I guess the real question should be: Why do we make things illegal in electric football that are legal in real football?

[TOEPRO Football Kit]

Hi all,

I can answer questions here also.

😉

Having seen the picture and rules mentioning TOEPRO Football.  Here’s the synopsis. 

The initial rules of electric football had references to any backfield player receiving the snap.  

We may look at this going forward (with movement initially away from the line…as the football does; within the numerals).  

We, in modern football, see only snaps going within a narrow range.  This action was taken into account when creating the snap zone. 
 

As it relates to downfield pitches, nothing prevents the offense from controlling the play-action remote following a catch to do it.  Just remember, a downfield tackle with the offense controlling the remote...

Thank you all for using TOEPRO Football to make it better. 

 

Kit Kinchen 

Commissioner 

[Terry43]

Here's the promised video.

A special "Thank You," to the Commissioner for the details. The play worked for twenty yards 🎆.

"...After the defense has set up their men, the offensive backs may be turned,"

This is in the video. 👍

"After studying the defense, the offense names the play, calls the ball carrier, and play is started."

This is in the video. 👍

"... A downfield tackle with the offense controlling the PlayAction Remote, an inbounds incomplete backward pass or blocked
kick, the play is paused and the following happens:
Flip a coin to determine possession by each team's closest player to spot of fumble:
Heads-Offense; Tails-Defense."

This is in the video. 👍

 

 

Instead of flipping a coin, I believe using passing sticks would work better. Then, if #35 misses the ball marker, then play continues until a player (defense of offense) touches the ball marker.

My question: Does Snap Zone = Fumble-Free Zone ?

Enjoy the Journey T43 ⚡🏈♾️

[Coach Shawn]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:29 AM, nefgm.org said:

guess the real question should be: Why do we make things illegal in electric football that are legal in real football?

Ideally if it is legal in real football then EF should also allow it.  But the rub is to match the rule while still maintaining a fair game.   
Allowing laterals is fine for the offense but is the defense being unfairly treated?    After all the defense is not reacting like living players would.   Most will be headed far far away from the play.  So a rule that works great in real football may need some extra thought when applying it to EF.

at the very least the defense should pivot any unengaged player when a lateral is attempted.

I am not opposed to laterals, in our league we have never actually outlawed them, no one has ever bothered to try them.

If someone did I suppose defenses would develop to guard against that.

[TOEPRO Football Kit]

That is one thing we definitely examined in EF.  

So much so that gave it a term. 👍🏾

[zak99b5]

For an automatic pitch, my league uses the white (middle) passing stick to see if the QB and intended receiver are close enough.  After the pitch is made, defense can pivot any unengaged players.

I could see applying the same method for laterals.  

For a Music City Miracle-type lateral, one could just use the passing sticks as usual, with the caveat that the ball must be placed somewhere behind the man tossing the ball, as in real football.

Thinking I'd want to restrict these shenanigans to last play of the half or similar.

[Greg F]

I like this system zak99b5 uses.  

Edited June 15, 2023 by Greg F

[Terry43]

The lateral should be dangerous for the offense. High risk for high gain. The TOEPRO rules have the flip of a coin. That's a 50% chance of failure and very high risk. 

"NFL 100 Greatest Plays | No. 43: Miami Dolphins Playoff Hook And Lateral Against Chargers

The Miami Dolphins' hook-and-lateral against the San Diego Chargers in the playoffs of the 1981 season comes in as the No. 43 greatest play in NFL history."

To this day watching that play gets my heart pounding. But the lateral is the least of the questions puzzling me. The snap sailing over the QB's head, or smacking the QB's fingers leading to a fumble, is the question dogging me. I've never had a fumbled snap.

If the Snap Zone is a Fumble-Free Zone (automatic), then a twenty yard snap to a wide receiver is going into my Playbook for every game. I ran the play a bunch before I made the video and the play went for positive yards whenever the lateral was complete.

Then I found this on Reddit.

"But from a rules perspective, if the QB never controls the snap, it actually isn't a fumble at all- it's a backward pass. This matters for the holy roller rule, where a teammate can't advance a fumble on 4th down, or under two minutes. Since the snap isn't a fumble, the loose ball isn't "charged" to anyone, and can be advanced by any player."

I'm curious how many coaches have fumbled snaps?

Enjoy the Journey. T43 ⚡🏈♾️

[TOEPRO Football Kit]

Most EF rules don’t have a “fumbled snaps”.  If they are, it’s in multi-stop gameplay.