Weighted Players and Bases

[nefgm.org]

Posted on Facebook 2/3/2024

Deep South Miniature Football League (DSMFL)

Scrap Jones

Hey Coaches, I’ve been looking for a way to finally gain the edge on yaw for the playoffs……………
That’s right i went back and found my 1984 running back base off of my Steelers. Yep, yaw in trouble now!! And it still runs.

Anthony D Burgess
Awesome!!!
It’s way past time that weighted play get the respect it deserves.
Just as base tweakers are respected so also should weighted base makers be as well .
It is a skill and it’s more to it then guys think and there is a rule for weighted bases/players and it’s this……. Weight MUST BE UNDER THE BASE ONLY!
Magnets CSN NOT BE USED AS WEIGHT!
One player on ONE WEIGHTED BASE!
NO HOUSE PANTED MEN!!
There is no 3.0, 4.0,etc limit on your players weight, only that that player can run/ function in a football manner and not be a slow/sluggish moving type base.
3.0, 4,0 IS NOT CONSIDERED WEIGHTED.
Visually you shouldn’t be able to tell a weighted player from a none weighted player.
You can’t have and shouldn’t have guys who do not play weighted speak on or give any instructions or advice on this subject as they simply don’t qualify and lack the experience.
Weighted coaches take as much pride in their weighted team as TTQB passers do in their skill.
A weighted coaches training camp is a closely guarded secret, think of it like a top secret recipe.
Now weighted bases are fast, strong and extremely consistent, they don’t fall over yet to find that balance of speed and strength is ant art within itself.

Scrap Jones
Anthony D Burgess, I hadn’t thought to look at it that way until reading your comment. I think theirs something to that. They say that David Nickles used to run a tournament just like what you’re talking about and people came from all over the country. Maybe it’s time to bring it back.

Anthony D Burgess
Scrap Jones Yes David Nickles did have something it was called the Bamma Blast and it was awesome……
What destroyed it was people pleasing and lack of morals and character.
The Bamma Blast is the reason why I no longer compete in tournaments, when pleasing others and cliques are more important than integrity, more important than fairness and right I can not be a part of such a thing.
I was told that I was so far ahead of everyone as an excuse for not doing the right thing SMH
IF THE BAMMA BLAST was to return I’m not sure if I would participate in it.

James L Shealey
We played at 6grams in the old Ga EFL high speed hard hits our most feared player was a woman Ms Andrea Hubbard a very beautiful lady who looked like a model

Jeff Priest
Seen razor blades under platform before lol.

Every once in a while, you get an interesting discussion on Facebook

 

[Terry43]

Hi Chris. I see you thought of a way to get me to Tudor Con: Guest Speaker. The program abstract might look like this:

The Physics of Electric Football, A thoroughly stimulating exploration of energy transfer through continuous vibration. 2 hours. FREE. Participants will have opportunities for hands-on exploration of adding weight mechanically, coping with friction, and discussion of common misunderstandings about weight and strength.

🫢

Several of the misunderstandings were in Anthony D. Burgess' post

16 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

1. Visually you shouldn’t be able to tell a weighted player from a none weighted player.

16 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

2. to find that balance of speed and strength is ant art within itself.

16 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

3. A weighted coaches training camp is a closely guarded secret, think of it like a top secret recipe.

1. Why? I don't even see the nut on the platform anymore. Looks natural.

2. It's math, (Momentum = mass X speed), not art. The amount of weight plastic prongs can support is also a real number.

3. Does it seem like I'm guarding a secret?

Thanks for reposting the Facebook post. I'm grateful for the opportunity to react to the post, but I haven't changed my mind about not joining Facebook.

When 2021 the last Bamma Blast? I found this photo montage and I believe you're in it.

https://youtu.be/UJ0x2hI45ME?si=fIrtJE57lOfmF5mO

Enjoy the Journey.   T43.     

Spoiler

⚡🏈♾️

 

[nefgm.org]

4 hours ago, Terry43 said:

Hi Chris. I see you thought of a way to get me to Tudor Con: Guest Speaker.

Hey, if that if that is what it would take, would love to get you there. 

4 hours ago, Terry43 said:

When 2021 the last Bamma Blast? I found this photo montage and I believe you're in it.

Those pics are from over several years, not exactly sure when, but definitely some from 1999 Bama Blast and 2005 Miggle Convention in Pittsburgh. Pics are from a pack of photos donated to the museum by David Nickles and the Deep South MFL. 

Man!!! That was 25 years ago!! LOL. With Jerry McGhee on his ECU Pirates Big Board. 

Edited February 6 by nefgm.org

[Daryl Collins]

M’lawd! 
What wormhole did I just fall into!?!

Journey On!

D.C.

[BlueHen]

On 2/5/2024 at 7:27 PM, nefgm.org said:

 

Hey Coaches, I’ve been looking for a way to finally gain the edge on yaw for the playoffs……………
That’s right i went back and found my 1984 running back base off of my Steelers. Yep, yaw in trouble now!! And it still runs.

 

 

Holy Guacamole coach! That looks like EF's version of William the Refrigerator Perry running the ball on the goal line for the 85' Bears. You're gonna bowl defenders over like bowling pins with that locomotive! 🚂

Out of curiosity, do you know what the weight is? 

 

 

21 hours ago, Daryl Collins said:

M’lawd! 
What wormhole did I just fall into!?!

 

🤣

Edited February 8 by BlueHen

[nefgm.org]

11 hours ago, BlueHen said:

Out of curiosity, do you know what the weight is?

No. I don't know the weight. 1984 I don't think the idea of restricting weight was even thought of. Might have been, but I don't know. 

[BlueHen]

9 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

No. I don't know the weight. 1984 I don't think the idea of restricting weight was even thought of. Might have been, but I don't know. 

When I think about it, it really does fit into the concept of strategy when it comes to weighing the players/bases. Some guys might make them so heavy that they move slower, but that might benefit them more than it hurts them since the opposing team would have difficulty moving them. It (the weight) should all be up to the individual coach in my humble opinion...

[Terry43]

On 2/8/2024 at 3:34 PM, BlueHen said:

It (the weight) should all be up to the individual coach in my humble opinion...

Agreed as long as the coach is playing solitaire. In tournament play there has to be mutually agreed upon rules otherwise it really isn't fair.

Perhaps there could be a Bantamweight division (under 4 grams), Featherweight Division (4 to 6 grams), Welterweight Division (7 to 9 grams) , and a Heavyweight Division (over 9 grams). Tournaments could crown four champions.

However, I doubt there are enough EF hobbyists to make that sustainable.

Enjoy the Journey    T43.   ⚡🏈♾️

 

[BlueHen]

7 hours ago, Terry43 said:

Agreed as long as the coach is playing solitaire. In tournament play there has to be mutually agreed upon rules otherwise it really isn't fair.

Perhaps there could be a Bantamweight division (under 4 grams), Featherweight Division (4 to 6 grams), Welterweight Division (7 to 9 grams) , and a Heavyweight Division (over 9 grams). Tournaments could crown four champions.

However, I doubt there are enough EF hobbyists to make that sustainable.

Enjoy the Journey    T43.   ⚡🏈♾️

 

You know more than I do Coach, so there's no sense in disputing that, LOL. But, hypothetically, why wouldn't it be fair to have an "open" division where weight is unrestricted? 

It seems like each coach would have the opportunity to add as much (or as little) weight as their heart desires, right? I mean, if you get too heavy, wouldn't that slow the pieces down? If that's the case, then that's where the coaches strategy would come into play. One coach might like the heavy smashmouth lineup, whereas another one might prefer the speedier and lighter team. Jimmy Johnson was the real life coach who decided to be a rebel and start recruiting linebackers that were really fast, even though they gave up some size. Miami probably lost a game or two on account of that, but his strategy worked overall...

Perhaps if there were restrictions, it could be limited to only using putty instead of bolts and nuts like you and Coach Chris? Not that I don't like the idea of using the bolts of course, it's just that maybe not everyone is able to do that method as easily as the putty since that requires a little more skill. Or, maybe there could be a new limit set at around 7 or 8 grams?

Someone should petition Bryan Nutt and see if that's a possibility in a future tournament as a kind of experiment. ✍️📜

[nefgm.org]

I don't know if Bryan and Tudor Games will, but I am working on an outline for that very thing. An "OPEN" tournament.

It is not a new concept and has been done before. The "Bama Blast" in it's early stages was an "open" tournament. The was once an "Eric and Dave's Open" Electric Football Tournament.

Even as we speak I am working on a museum sponsored NEFGM "Open" ELECTRIC FOOTBALL Tournament. 

There have at times been tournaments that have been setup with a 3.2 grams or less division and a 4.0 gram maximum division. I think these were  Buzzball and MFCA sponsored tournaments. 

There have at times been discussions of Beginner" and "Advanced" Players/ Coaches Divisions Tournaments

When you start going beyond more than 2 divisions Yes, you start getting into that area of dividing the game up into too many sustainable divisions. 

As an example. I ran the Solitaire Coaches Points Challenge competition which had 4 divisions. "Box/Stock"  "3.2", 4.0" and "Unlimited". 

Box/Stock and 3.2 were the most popular with the greater number of participants. 4.0 only had a few participants and Unlimited had only one participant. 

You can find out all about that competition by reading the "Solitaire Illustrated" and "SCPC Gameday" publications, avaiable with downloads in the NEFGM Library section of the nefgm.org website. 

The SCPC was the one and only competition, to date, to ever crown a "Solitaire ELECTRIC FOOTBALL National Champion". It had a good 5-year run until intetest in it finally faded out. 

The biggest issue in electric football and in sponsoring any kind of  tournament is having a good "Universal" ruleset that will be accepted by everyone in the game and hobby. BELIEVE ME. I HAVE TRIED. It is impossible. 

I mean just look at all the hundreds of different ways and variatiobs that solitaire coaches have come up with to play the game. 

When setting up a tournament, league or any competion, you will never please everybody. Either the dates don't fit individual schedules, or the location is too far away, or the rules and style of play "isn't the way I want to play".

The best you can hope for is to be able to set up an event that will generate enough interest and draw enough people to, to make it successful and hopefully be able to make it sustainable for several more years to come. 

 

[BlueHen]

3 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

 

Even as we speak I am working on a museum sponsored NEFGM "Open" ELECTRIC FOOTBALL Tournament. 

 

You're probably ahead of me on this too, LOL, but you should document this and share it with the EF community if it works well (doesn't have to be perfect). Then, just add commentary on how it might be "tweaked" for subtle improvements.

 

 

3 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

 

The biggest issue in electric football and in sponsoring any kind of  tournament is having a good "Universal" ruleset that will be accepted by everyone in the game and hobby. BELIEVE ME. I HAVE TRIED. It is impossible. 

I mean just look at all the hundreds of different ways and variatiobs that solitaire coaches have come up with to play the game. 

 

 

 

Yes. This is something I've begun to notice. In fact, I'm still in the process if trying to decide which rules to go by. It's not that I'm afraid to implement my own rules (I'm adding franchise players and weighting my bases over 4 grams), but I didn't want to deviate to far from the tournaments rules just in case I might want to try to enter one someday. That way, the rules won't seem to foreign to me like I'm sure they are from some coaches who are really good, but might lose simply on account of not knowing the specific rules, LOL.

 

 

3 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

 

When setting up a tournament, league or any competion, you will never please everybody. Either the dates don't fit individual schedules, or the location is too far away, or the rules and style of play "isn't the way I want to play".

The best you can hope for is to be able to set up an event that will generate enough interest and draw enough people to, to make it successful and hopefully be able to make it sustainable for several more years to come. 

 

Yeah, I can definitely understand the dilemma there. It probably helps to make everyone understand that you're doing your best to try to find a happy medium and that everyone has to give and take a little bit in order for it to work. To some degree, that's kind of how life is though, right? 

 

BTW, do you happen to know where the idea of 4 grams is the heaviest weight limit for tournaments comes from? Just curious if it was made at a point in time when bases were made differently, and now that things have changed slightly, so should the rulesets? 

[nefgm.org]

11 minutes ago, BlueHen said:

BTW, do you happen to know where the idea of 4 grams is the heaviest weight limit for tournaments comes from? Just curious if it was made at a point in time when bases were made differently, and now that things have changed slightly, so should the rulesets? 

Yes. It started probably 20 - 25 years ago as the popularity of the Miggle Toys / Tudor Games Conventions and tournaments grew, and more and more local league and regional tournaments were beginning to gain popularity. It also corresponds with the time that more small companies such as Buzzball, FootballFigure. net, and ITZ bases were beginning to produce electric football teams, figures, bases and custom game boards in competition with Miggle /Tudor for the electric football game market. 

The main reason for the added weights was because coaches were beginning to increase the board speeds, custom posed figures were becoming unbalanced, and added details such as muscle tone sculpted with "Green Stuff' epoxy resin sculpting putty were being added to the figures, more coats of paint on the figures, and details such as name and number decals, Facemasks, glove and shoe decals, towels, neck roles, long hair and dreadlocks, etc., etc..., were being added to figures increasing the weight of the figures. This added weight to the figures and the increased board speeds lead to the need to add weight to the bases just to keep the figures from falling down all the time and making it more difficult to run and complete plays. 

Of course, with anything like this where people start taking it to the extremes, standards have to start being set. At first the added weight was 3.2 grams maximum but had to be increased to 4.0 grams for people to eventually accept that as the standard weight limit. Many people are now challenging that limit to where the standard will probably have to be raised again to either 4.5 grams or 5.0 grams. 

The only reason I know all this is because it was 25 years ago that I rediscovered the game and hobby, was exposed to a lot of it by traveling to different areas of the country participating in leagues and tournament and experiencing it firsthand. 

[BlueHen]

2 hours ago, nefgm.org said:

 

The main reason for the added weights was because coaches were beginning to increase the board speeds, custom posed figures were becoming unbalanced, and added details such as muscle tone sculpted with "Green Stuff' epoxy resin sculpting putty were being added to the figures, more coats of paint on the figures, and details such as name and number decals, Facemasks, glove and shoe decals, towels, neck roles, long hair and dreadlocks, etc., etc..., were being added to figures increasing the weight of the figures. This added weight to the figures and the increased board speeds lead to the need to add weight to the bases just to keep the figures from falling down all the time and making it more difficult to run and complete plays. 

 

Very interesting. That actually makes a lot of sense now. The extra weight under the base (with putty, nuts/bolts or something else?) compensates for the added weight on the figures from all the bling bling, LOL. 

OK, I don't want to belabor the point with too many questions here coach, but if you were in a truly open division, and there was no weight limit set, and Al Davis was saying: "Just win Baby!", do you know what would be your ideal weight for the 3 levels (which include Lineman, TE's FB's and Linebackers, and backs/receivers)? Would you go by the chart you uploaded called: "Cumulative Weight Distribution", or would you go higher? 

 

 

Cumulative Weight Distribution.pdf

[nefgm.org]

Yeah, the cumulative weight distribution. 

[Terry43]

On 2/11/2024 at 12:59 PM, BlueHen said:

would you go higher? 

Higher.

Weight X Speed = momentum.  Speed is capped by the motion generator so to get more momentum a coach needs more weight.

Remember this thought problem from Drivers' Education Class?

Little plastic Peep A weighs 10 grams and is moving at 10 mph. 🏃‍♂️

Little plastic Peep B weighs 11 grams and is moving at 10 mph. 🏃‍♂️

Which one hits harder, Peep A or Peep B? 🤔

Increase momentum and decrease friction, and then Enjoy in the Journey.   T43.   ⚡🏈♾️