5 gram minimum weight Drafting the best Lineman

[Terry43]

Which of my Offensive Linemen / Defensive Linemen could be a #1 draft choice?

Strength is important and the determination of strength is sometimes subjective. I have three methods for getting the little plastic peeps true strength.

1st.  I glued two metal dice together and their combined weight is 33.56 grams. I measure if a lineman can push 6 times his body weight for three yards. Timing this exercise can be informative also.

2nd. I place two players head-to-head and see which one can push the other around. I put less emphasis on this method because a base with a high coefficient of friction may be difficult to push backwards but doesn't push forward very well.

This video illustrates both.

 

3rd is statistical. On Defense I look at the number of tackles / tackles for lost yards / QB sacks over three games. On Offense I look at the positive yards gained — over three games — through the B-gap, C-gap, D-gap, and E-gap. B-gaps and E-gaps usually reflect strong tackles. C-gap and D-gap usually indicate a strong Center / Guard relationship.

Enjoy the Drafting Journey.   T43.   ⚡🏈♾️

[Terry43]

I held weight pushing trials for four players today. I also ran these strong men through the forty-yard dash.

 

If the Draft was today Meteor Tackle #74 would be First Round, third or fourth overall pick.

Meteor Tackle/ Defensive End #74   At 5.25 grams he is the lightest weight player. Is the fastest in the forty-yard dash. Second in head-to-head competition.

Angels of Avalon Defensive End / Tight End #99   At 5.35 grams he should be stronger. Middle of the pack in the forty-yard dash. Last in head-to-head competition.

Baja Blast Meteor Tackle/ Defensive End #77 Tudor Big Man. Weighs 5.53 grams. Slogs through the forty-yard dash. Third in head-to-head competition.

Dragons Defensive End / Tight End #98   Weighs 5.26 grams. Had trouble pushing 33.5 grams. Took three attempts to get the dice three yards. Won the head-to-head competition. Downside is erratic behavior. He didn't finish the 40-yard dash on most occasions because he went out of bounds after about 20 yards.

 

 

Enjoy the Draft Journey. T43.   ⚡🏈♾️

[BlueHen]

Very cool...

 

[BlueHen]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:04 PM, Terry43 said:

Which of my Offensive Linemen / Defensive Linemen could be a #1 draft choice?

Strength is important and the determination of strength is sometimes subjective. I have three methods for getting the little plastic peeps true strength.

1st.  I glued two metal dice together and their combined weight is 33.56 grams. I measure if a lineman can push 6 times his body weight for three yards. Timing this exercise can be informative also.

2nd. I place two players head-to-head and see which one can push the other around. I put less emphasis on this method because a base with a high coefficient of friction may be difficult to push backwards but doesn't push forward very well.

This video illustrates both.

 

3rd is statistical. On Defense I look at the number of tackles / tackles for lost yards / QB sacks over three games. On Offense I look at the positive yards gained — over three games — through the B-gap, C-gap, D-gap, and E-gap. B-gaps and E-gaps usually reflect strong tackles. C-gap and D-gap usually indicate a strong Center / Guard relationship.

Enjoy the Drafting Journey.   T43.   ⚡🏈♾️

OK Coach, I have a couple of questions for you....

 

Firstly, how important is it that lineman bases be able to travel in a straight line 50 yds. down the field? I mean, from a practical standpoint, blocking usually takes place within 10 yds, and often times before that. I'm asking because my bases don't seem to be tweaked to be able to travel very far, LOL

And secondly, would you say it's impossible to add too much weight to lineman bases? Ideally, I want my lineman bases to be slower than the LB's, TE's and skilled position player/bases, but they should be stronger. So, I've gotten "power bases" from ITZ (wider prongs), and made the weight around 7 oz. whereas the skilled position player/bases are about 5 grams and tweaked for speed. Should I try 9 oz. in your opinion? What'cha think?

[Terry43]

8 hours ago, BlueHen said:

lineman bases be able to travel in a straight line 50 yds. down the field?

1. Think of a dial like a steering wheel. The default should be straight and if I want the player to turn left I turn the dial left. Right turn, I turn the dial right. 

    A. However, if an offensive lineman turns too sharply then it's like a Mad Max movie with one whirling dervish taking out other linemen or not blocking at all.

    B. Furthermore, once the offensive lineman has turned 35 degrees then a straight rushing defensive lineman can use the offensive lineman's momentum against him.

    C. My linemen play on offense and defense. So A & B also apply to defensive linemen.

9 hours ago, BlueHen said:

Ideally, I want my lineman bases to be slower than the LB's, TE's and skilled position player/bases

I'm trying to picture a situation where lineman should be slow. 🤔 None come to mind.

9 hours ago, BlueHen said:

I've gotten "power bases" from ITZ (wider prongs)

The wider prongs have increased surface area which results in a high coefficient of friction. That's why they are slow. 'Power bases' are difficult to push backwards because the broad prongs have increased drag.

When it comes to increasing weight keep this formula in mind: Speed x Weight = Momentum. "A large, fast-moving object has greater momentum than a smaller, slower object." Which will hurt more? A bowling ball moving 5 mph or a hard ball moving 5 mph?

If you increase the little plastic peep's weight to 9 grams and the plastic peep's speed remains the same, then it will hit harder.

However, if you increase the plastic peep's weight to 9 grams and you increase friction so that speed is reduced, then your little plastic peep will not hit harder.

I'm not sure that made sense to anyone but me. ❓

9 hours ago, BlueHen said:

Should I try 9 oz. in your opinion?

Try it! 😃👍 Set up your experiment. Measure your results over time.

Most importantly, does answering the whole weight question improve your enjoyment of the game?

It does for me. 😃👍 Maybe it will for you.

Enjoy the Journey.    T43.    ⚡🏈♾️

[Daryl Collins]

As Thomas Dolby once said,”Science!”.

Journey On!

[Terry43]

A final thought, Coach BlueHen.

I looked at all the 60 year-old bases on eBay and I wondered, Is there any way for those old bases to be competitive with the bases du jour.  That became my goal.

I started experimenting with adding weight as a way to level the playing field for Tudor bases old and new. I wanted the 1967 Aqua Single-Clip bases, and the 1971 red-prong bases, and the 1949 metal bases, and the 1990 Butterscotch bases, and the Modern-era Convention bases, and the post-modern Proline bases, and the ITZ bases to all be competitive on the same field against each other. I've written posts on all of these successful experiments.

For me the mixture of electric football history, and electric football physics, and electric football strategy is like a perpetual cocktail of Serotonin, Adrenalin and Dopamine: They just wake me right up in the morning and make every day a great day to be alive. 🤩👍

Enjoy the Journey.  T43.  ⚡🏈♾️

[BlueHen]

14 hours ago, Terry43 said:

1. Think of a dial like a steering wheel. The default should be straight and if I want the player to turn left I turn the dial left. Right turn, I turn the dial right. 

    A. However, if an offensive lineman turns too sharply then it's like a Mad Max movie with one whirling dervish taking out other linemen or not blocking at all.

    B. Furthermore, once the offensive lineman has turned 35 degrees then a straight rushing defensive lineman can use the offensive lineman's momentum against him.

    C. My linemen play on offense and defense. So A & B also apply to defensive linemen.

 

 

Excellent point coach. I'll call it: "The 35 degree rule". Which is not unlike real life in that a person needs to "square up" to his opponent to maximize strength lest he be thrown aside like yesterdays newspaper (I like to keep mine for starting bonfires sometimes 🔥)

 

 

14 hours ago, Terry43 said:

 

 

I'm trying to picture a situation where lineman should be slow. 🤔 None come to mind.

The wider prongs have increased surface area which results in a high coefficient of friction. That's why they are slow. 'Power bases' are difficult to push backwards because the broad prongs have increased drag.

When it comes to increasing weight keep this formula in mind: Speed x Weight = Momentum. "A large, fast-moving object has greater momentum than a smaller, slower object." Which will hurt more? A bowling ball moving 5 mph or a hard ball moving 5 mph?

If you increase the little plastic peep's weight to 9 grams and the plastic peep's speed remains the same, then it will hit harder.

However, if you increase the plastic peep's weight to 9 grams and you increase friction so that speed is reduced, then your little plastic peep will not hit harder.

I'm not sure that made sense to anyone but me. ❓

Try it! 😃👍 Set up your experiment. Measure your results over time.

Most importantly, does answering the whole weight question improve your enjoyment of the game?

It does for me. 😃👍 Maybe it will for you.

Enjoy the Journey.    T43.    ⚡🏈♾️

No, it makes perfect sense, but I think it's me who didn't make sense, LOL.

 

What I mean is, I have 3 different types of bases. The power bases are obviously sufficient for the lineman. But for the skilled positions (i.e. Defensive backs, WR's, RB's, etc.) I have CL-2's. Therefore, I need to skilled position bases to be faster, but not as powerful in order to imitate reality. My 3rd type of base is literally designed (at least theoretically) to be faster than the power bases, but not quite as strong, but slower than the CL-2's, but slightly more powerful. So, it's not that I want "slow" power bases per se, but if they're moving down the field as quick or quicker than the other two, it presents a problem. 

So, the trick will be to find what weight works best for each. Initially, I've made the power bases heavier of course, but in the long run, I may discover the CL-2's need to be heavier, because as a fellow coach used to say (I think his name is coach Terry 😉), the bases seem to perform better with more weight. I'm going to try experimenting with heavier CL-2's, because I'm not impressed with their speed so far...

5 hours ago, Terry43 said:

 

For me the mixture of electric football history, and electric football physics, and electric football strategy is like a perpetual cocktail of Serotonin, Adrenalin and Dopamine: They just wake me right up in the morning and make every day a great day to be alive. 🤩👍

Enjoy the Journey.  T43.  ⚡🏈♾️

I've had a sip of that cocktail, and I have to admit it's pretty darn tasty... 😋

[Terry43]

52 minutes ago, BlueHen said:

if (offensive linemen) are moving down the field as quick or quicker than the other two, it presents a problem. 

On 5/26/2024 at 12:34 PM, BlueHen said:

Firstly, how important is it that lineman bases be able to travel in a straight line 50 yds. down the field? I mean, from a practical standpoint, blocking usually takes place within 10 yds, and often times before that

Well Coach Bluehen, tt seems we've circled back to your original question.

I don't have an 'Ineligible Receiver Downfield' penalty, or an "Illegal Block in the Back" penalty, or any penalties at all, so offensive linemen 50 yards downfield, or offensive linemen outrunning receivers, aren't a problem. It's flat out fast — every player — on every play. 🏇

Good luck  🍀  working out your various speed considerations.

Enjoy the Journey.   T43.    ⚡🏈♾️

[Coach Shawn]

On 5/26/2024 at 10:30 PM, Terry43 said:

. Think of a dial like a steering wheel. The default should be straight and if I want the player to turn left I turn the dial left. Right turn, I turn the dial right. 

Do you prefer to use dial bases on your linemen?  
I mostly use normal bases but do have some dials on some linemen.

with dial bases I find that I never actually change the dial setting during a game anyway.

[Terry43]

28 minutes ago, Coach Shawn said:

Do you prefer to use dial bases on your linemen?

Hi Coach Shawn. I do prefer dial bases for linemen.

When the linemen are on defense I set the dials for straight. In their lanes and straight up field.

On offense I usually set up a double-team with the guard and center. So the center must block left and right with equal alacrity. In my current tournament I'm using only Tudor single clip bases so I must have two centers (one who turns right and another who turns left).

Influence blocking requires all the offensive linemen to block in the same direction. In the 2006 National Championship game between the Texas Longhorns and the USC Trojans the Longhorns used influence blocking a lot. On the game winning drive Vince Young just stands there and watches the Longhorn offensive linemen take USC in one direction and then Vince Young ran in the opposite direction.

I usually pull both tight ends to block the edge rushers, set all the offensive line to block toward the weak side, and then let: A. the tailback run into the gap, or B. the QB run into the gap. The gap should open between the strong side tackle and where the strong side tight end was before he pulled out. This is my version of the misdirection play.

I noticed Coach Carl of the AEFL uses normal bases exclusively.

Enjoy the Journey.   T43.    ⚡🏈♾️

[Daryl Collins]

I generally use dials on all my linemen and occasionally the tight ends. 60% give or take. I may or may not mess with the direction on every play, but I do like the option. Exception being, I do have plans for creating a defense minded squad where rookie bases might be used to put pressure on opposing offenses with a emphasis on pushing up field at the line of scrimmage. “No excuses given, none accepted.” (John Forcenda).

Now who’s got the Dopamine, Serotonin, and Adrenaline going!?!

Dang, I love this hobby!!

Journey On!

[Terry43]

17 hours ago, Daryl Collins said:

I may or may not mess with the direction on every play

There's an expression, "If it ain't broke — don't fix it." The same is true in electric football. If the offensive line is punching holes for running backs — don't mess with the blocking scheme.

However, if the defensive side of my brain effectively counters the formerly-effective-blocking scheme — then the offensive half of my brain needs a new blocking scheme, or formation, or running back.

I sometimes feel the incredible man with two heads.  👥

Can you imagine how much Dopamine, Serotonin, and Adrenaline is generated with two heads? Great Googly Moogly. 🤪

Enjoy the Journey.  T43.   ⚡🏈♾️

[Daryl Collins]

This Chef agrees!

Journey On!

[GreenBayGlenn]

On 5/19/2024 at 9:04 PM, Terry43 said:

I glued two metal dice together and their combined weight is 33.56 grams. I measure if a lineman can push 6 times his body weight for three yards. Timing this exercise can be informative also.

Such genius! Terry, I now knight you "the Elon Musk" of electric football! Maybe I'll find some nice trophy and present it to you. Might start a new EF tradition of honoring the most innovative coach in EF every year. For now, Terry wins automatically for 2024 just from me reading all these posts since I've been back online. I'm never logging out, because it might take me a year or more to get back into the Forum! LOL 

Speaking of scales...(where did that come from? No one is speaking of scales here!)...well, I did play Left Field during my elementary, middle school (or Junior High as we geezers say) and high school and post high school, so yes, I WILL come out of left field on stuff from time to time! In fact, my entire UNREAL league has come out of left field! LOL........ oh yea, scales!  I have a scale, but I also have a hunch your scale is better than mine! (That's what she said!).

Can I get one just like it? Give me the scoop please! Thanks. 

[176JohnsonSt]

On 5/27/2024 at 9:34 AM, Terry43 said:

A final thought, Coach BlueHen.

I looked at all the 60 year-old bases on eBay and I wondered, Is there any way for those old bases to be competitive with the bases du jour.  That became my goal.

I started experimenting with adding weight as a way to level the playing field for Tudor bases old and new. I wanted the 1967 Aqua Single-Clip bases, and the 1971 red-prong bases, and the 1949 metal bases, and the 1990 Butterscotch bases, and the Modern-era Convention bases, and the post-modern Proline bases, and the ITZ bases to all be competitive on the same field against each other. I've written posts on all of these successful experiments.

For me the mixture of electric football history, and electric football physics, and electric football strategy is like a perpetual cocktail of Serotonin, Adrenalin and Dopamine: They just wake me right up in the morning and make every day a great day to be alive. 🤩👍

Enjoy the Journey.  T43.  ⚡🏈♾️

Do you have any pictures of your metal bases???  I've never seen them before... Those sound Pretty Cool...

🔌🏈

[Terry43]

4 hours ago, 176JohnsonSt said:

Do you have any pictures of your metal bases???  I've never seen them before... Those sound Pretty Cool...

This is a post from 2023.

Hi. My 31st Season started today, June 1st.

I'm calling this season the Iron Horse #6 Season because this is the 6th time I've included the Iron Horse in my Double Elimination tournament. The Iron Horse are special because the bases are 1949 steel bases. The plastic figures were Tudor Moon Sharks.

The 1949 bases were made with two mud flap prongs so originally the only tweaking was pressing  the prongs forward or backwards. The 1949 game came with instructions on how to do this. To the best of my knowledge — and the current Tudor web page aside — these are the only two times Tudor or Miggle suggested in their booklets that the bases might need tweaking. The National Electric Football Game Museum probably has better information on this.

Intuition informed me that steel bases could do better. First, I reasoned the bases could run faster. I reduced friction by sanding a curve into the mud flap prongs (or reeds as the instructions say) creating four distinct points of contact. Each point of contact can be slightly 🤏 bent to change direction.

Then, on some players — like offensive linemen — I turned the base around so the flat back side of the base becomes the flat front side. This enables linemen to hold their blocks longer. #88 shows the original orientation of the base and #69 shows the base turned around. #55 shows an original orientation where I sanded the front of the base flat. This didn't help. 🙁

1949 steel bases weight in at around 3.57 grams. Adding a plastic figure adds another 1.88 grams, for an average total weight of 5.45 grams. Tudor TTC bases with figures average about 3.10 grams. In my 16th season this added weight enabled the Iron Horse to push their way into the Fruit Bowl where they lost to the much faster Blue Jays. During the ensuing offseason I experimented with adding weight to all my teams. As the saying goes, the rest is history.

Over five seasons the Iron Horse have compiled a win/loss record of 7 — 6 and have a permanent place in my heart. I would never part with my 1949 Iron Horse.

Enjoy the Journey. Terry 43 ⚡🏈♾️

 

[Terry43]

 

Here's a video of the 1949 steel bases (the Iron Horse) in a game (that they lost 😪

Enjoy the journey.    T43.    ⚡🏈♾️

[176JohnsonSt]

2 hours ago, Terry43 said:

This is a post from 2023.

 

Hi. My 31st Season started today, June 1st.

I'm calling this season the Iron Horse #6 Season because this is the 6th time I've included the Iron Horse in my Double Elimination tournament. The Iron Horse are special because the bases are 1949 steel bases. The plastic figures were Tudor Moon Sharks.

The 1949 bases were made with two mud flap prongs so originally the only tweaking was pressing  the prongs forward or backwards. The 1949 game came with instructions on how to do this. To the best of my knowledge — and the current Tudor web page aside — these are the only two times Tudor or Miggle suggested in their booklets that the bases might need tweaking. The National Electric Football Game Museum probably has better information on this.

Intuition informed me that steel bases could do better. First, I reasoned the bases could run faster. I reduced friction by sanding a curve into the mud flap prongs (or reeds as the instructions say) creating four distinct points of contact. Each point of contact can be slightly 🤏 bent to change direction.

Then, on some players — like offensive linemen — I turned the base around so the flat back side of the base becomes the flat front side. This enables linemen to hold their blocks longer. #88 shows the original orientation of the base and #69 shows the base turned around. #55 shows an original orientation where I sanded the front of the base flat. This didn't help. 🙁

1949 steel bases weight in at around 3.57 grams. Adding a plastic figure adds another 1.88 grams, for an average total weight of 5.45 grams. Tudor TTC bases with figures average about 3.10 grams. In my 16th season this added weight enabled the Iron Horse to push their way into the Fruit Bowl where they lost to the much faster Blue Jays. During the ensuing offseason I experimented with adding weight to all my teams. As the saying goes, the rest is history.

Over five seasons the Iron Horse have compiled a win/loss record of 7 — 6 and have a permanent place in my heart. I would never part with my 1949 Iron Horse.

Enjoy the Journey. Terry 43 ⚡🏈♾️

 

That's Just Cooler Than Cool...

👍

🔌🏈

[176JohnsonSt]

1 hour ago, Terry43 said:

 

Here's a video of the 1949 steel bases (the Iron Horse) in a game (that they lost 😪

Enjoy the journey.    T43.    ⚡🏈♾️

Your Steel Bases are Bad Ass !!!

Your guys Are Super Fast...

4 Sure your Steel Bases will catch Cliff Branch on a Quick Slant..

🔌🏈

[GreenBayGlenn]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:30 PM, Terry43 said:

1. Think of a dial like a steering wheel. The default should be straight and if I want the player to turn left I turn the dial left. Right turn, I turn the dial right. 

    A. However, if an offensive lineman turns too sharply then it's like a Mad Max movie with one whirling dervish taking out other linemen or not blocking at all.

    B. Furthermore, once the offensive lineman has turned 35 degrees then a straight rushing defensive lineman can use the offensive lineman's momentum against him.

Again, my mind is blown! You are so damn smart Terry! Your IQ has to be red pegging (see what I did there? ) to the max! I said it before and I'll say it again. I seriously believe you are the Elon Musk of electric football! 🙂

[GreenBayGlenn]

4 hours ago, Terry43 said:

Here's a video of the 1949 steel bases (the Iron Horse) in a game

That is so cool to see 1949 bases (10 years before I was born) brought back to life in 2024! I was so inspired I went to eBay to buy some sets of metal players to harvest the bases off them so I can have me some steel bases and do that too! See what you got started! LOL That video was great to see. I downloaded it and have played it over and over an embarrassing amount of times. I'll probably dream about steel bases tonight! 

[GreenBayGlenn]

On 5/28/2024 at 8:54 AM, Terry43 said:

This is my version of the misdirection play.

Since you're playing solitaire, can there really be any "misdirection" since surely you already know what is going on? 

[GreenBayGlenn]

5 hours ago, Terry43 said:

Tudor Moon Sharks.

Say, thanks for using "my team"! That was the team, along with Al Dunham's London Union Jacks that won the contest to be included in Tudor's new custom team lineup. That was a great honor from Michael Landsman. Brought back some good memories. 🙂 

[Terry43]

Coach GreenBay Glenn. Thank you for creating the Moon Sharks. They are my favorite of the Tudor Fantasy teams.

I bought the Union Jacks also and I changed their team name — and jersey design — to the Welsh Dragons.

 Not my most creative design.

 Many thanks to Al Dunham for creating the iconic helmet.

However, the away-jersey Moon Sharks remain my go-to-team when I want to create a new team. Once again, thank you.

Enjoy the Journey.    T43.    ⚡🏈♾️